You'll get Under Over the reviews

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roymond
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Re: You'll get Under Over the reviews

Post by roymond »

Generic wrote:Roymond, why are you singling out this one review of this one song? This is not the harshest nor the unfairest review on Songfight recently. In fact, it's not even the harshest nor unfairest in this fight. In fact, it's not even the harshest nor unfairest review of this song in this fight. Plus, if you listen to the song or read the other reviewers, you'll see that lalabrookie's opinion isn't really off the reservation on this one - she even took the time to point out specific things about the song that rubbed her the wrong way. What more do you want in a review?
OK, for your benefit, Jon, I'll go off the deep end. I did listen to the songs and I read the reviews. It's not that this review was harshest or meanest or thisest or thatest. Here are the things that together conspired to inspire me to review the review.

- You’re a 15 year old white boy, right? Correct me if I’m wrong.

The overwhelming majority here were once 15 year old white kids that wanted to try out the music thing. So, sue him if he gives it a shot. We all know no one ever gets better by trying, anyway.

- This “song” is an example of the crappy influence of today’s “music” industry and all of the problems that lie therein.

'scuse me? The Man Himself was involved in this crime? This "song" is a jumping off point for somebody that just might want to learn about music. It's his first entry. Geez, indeed.

- And if you really feel that you have some talent in there somewhere ...bla bla hedging filler... why don’t you go for something unique rather than doing what everyone else is doing?

Yes. Every original thinker that ever created unique art started out with one defining thought: "I should really try to be unique." Because we all know that Picasso couldn't draw worth shit. Philip Glass didn't study with Persichetti. And lord knows George Martin never produced jazz, classical and comedy before he got the Beatles thrown at him.

- Think about it.

Well, will ya punk? Here's the meat of the matter: give up. *Inspired*

Yes, there were a couple helpful comments that cement the commentary:
- Backing synth is really repetitive and annoying.
No, actually only that one item.

Look, I don't know lalabrookie. I don't know J SHEESY. So forgive me if I'm out of line for pointing out that constructive criticism usually doesn't include rugs being pulled out from underfoot (until they earn such favoritism). The song sucks. It really sucks. So what? Song Fight can often resemble a songwriting community that helps people figure shit out. It's not Song Love, mind you (your song really does suck, J Sheesy).

"So, where are your reviews, Mr Hot Under the Collar” you ask?

J Cheesy - Don’t sing about the process (“one take”). It comes off cheap out of the gate. Cut this intro way down. Kick right in...then get out fast because there’s not a lot of patience for static hip hop that doesn’t really go anywhere. Leave them wanting more. Freestyle is cool, when you can freestyle ideas and actually say something. Sort of like how songwriters write lyrics to say something. Even freestyle climbers have a goal to get to the top (don't try this at home, kids). And don’t look for special treatment “cause I freestyle, yo.” I think Charles hit it when he said, in your intro thread, “Be amazing and then let us tell you you're the greatest.” This might take time, however.

lalabrookie - Stevie Nicks much? No, I’m just kidding! Your harmonies are really sweet, and the guitar tone is the right kind of “full”. But the repetitive changes (repetitive changes?) get tired after a couple dozen verses...this really needs a bridge to break out of the drone zone. Cut the harmonies on that sort-of-a-bridge-but-not-really-since-it-sound-exactly-like-the-verse and sing in unison, maybe. Melodic variation is your friend. And these lyrics surely could have explored your recent utilities-related challenges in a deeper way, though the “you better be a gas” jib got a chuckle. I'm over this situation, but look forward to more.
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Re: You'll get Under Over the reviews

Post by lalabrookie »

BLT, what a nice offer! And I do love you for who you are, so stop crying...but no nudies...sorry.

Roy, I will consider your viewpoint in the future - it is true that I wouldn't want to scare anyone away from making music (especially if they are just starting out) by being overly harsh. But - as Generic kinda pointed out - if you're gonna hang around here, you do need to grow a set, right? I know I sure did (figuratively speaking, of course!)
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Re: You'll get Under Over the reviews

Post by Ross »

Billy's Little Trip wrote: I wonder who Bruce "stole" it from? :D
Actually, it's a lot like the recurring changes and rhythm in "Have a little Faith in Me" by John Hiatt. But as Jon notes, i don't repeat it.
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Re: You'll get Under Over the reviews

Post by Billy's Little Trip »

lalabrookie wrote:BLT, what a nice offer! And I do love you for who you are, so stop crying...but no nudies...sorry.
That's ok, I already picture you in my head. Good thing they don't make a connector from my brain to a printer. :wink:

....but I have to ask you, is that cat woman suit hot? It looks hot. :?
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Re: You'll get Under Over the reviews

Post by roymond »

lalabrookie wrote:But - as Generic kinda pointed out - if you're gonna hang around here, you do need to grow a set, right? I know I sure did (figuratively speaking, of course!)
Yeah, he might be a white middle aged man who hasn't gotten anywhere since he was 15, for all I know. In which case I assume he's got a thick set.

Cat Woman?
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Re: You'll get Under Over the reviews

Post by Steve Durand »

nyjm wrote:
Steven Durand

/// i want some slap-key guitar work on this to complete the Hawaiian vibe ///
Yeah , I hear ya'. but I was going for a Brazilian vibe ala Antonio Carlos Jobim/Stan Getz. Guess I missed the mark.

Thanks for the review Noah
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Re: You'll get Under Over the reviews

Post by Billy's Little Trip »

roymond wrote:Cat Woman?
Oh yeah, my weakness. I don't know what it is, the black pleather, shine, the whiskers on the face, the clawing at my "special purpose" ....not to mention all the purrring. Don't even get me started on a pleather camel toe.

.....ok, I better stop, I'm laughing so hard people are asking what I'm laughing at. :lol:

but srsly, cat woman suit, yep. Image
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Re: You'll get Under Over the reviews

Post by roymond »

BLT feat. Paco and DJ Ranger Den - holy crap! A new super power pop dynamo has reared its head. The best of all worlds. Superlative Synergy! I sort of like this.

Cannibal Parrot - Jon Eric can help you fill in those awkward spaces between the two chords with dozens of passing chords. Oh, this is Floyd...never mind. Fortunately, Front brought some cookies :)

Crank Radio - I like the contrast between the grunge guitar, vocals and clean guitar. That meandering voice in my left ear is disconcerning.

EggNogAdam - I don’t know if I’ll like it after many listens but the backing vocal is way cool. Nice subtle tinkering behind the second verse. But then everything sort of runs away in the bridge. Not sure, but maybe some of Crank’s sax could fill in to fade, rather than the awkward ending.

Flvxxvm Florvm - This would be a great warm up to Lynyrd Skynyrd. I really like the vocal delivery for some reason, the assertiveness. This belongs with itself. I love feedback as much as the next guy but my right ear is bleeding.

Hey it's Romer - The opening really had me laughing. It’s a little all over the map here, but some rough transitions could be smoothed out (made more convincing, not “smooth” like cool jazz) and make this all tie together better. .

Larry - There are a lot of cliches in here. The counter melody is a good mechanism but it looses its power because of predictability and limpness (technical term). Oh, that acoustic guitar could have totally made the bridge happen, if the bass was gone and the crunch gtr took a hike. Then they’d come back to build into the climax and fade. Most of this can be fixed in the mix.

noah mclaughlin - You need to open up the stereo field more. The cymbal is out there all alone, until the balancing cow bell. Better after the solo. Like it when the drums and bass hold the fort alone. Panning is tough with so many parts, but this is fun to listen to. Yeah!

Paco del Stinko - Your verses don’t flow as well as the chorus. Structure, groove, vocals, solo, textures, check check check the “awesome” box.

PiGPEN - This is radio ready. Goes on a bit, but very listenable despite itself. Please don’t be ripping somebody off cause this really has a “sound” to it. I like that.
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Re: You'll get Under Over the reviews

Post by SchlimminyCricket »

Fellows, let us not fight, save it be in song form. Anyway, REVIEWS FROM ME.

PiGPEN - No, thank you. This is some locker room nonsense. I'm not a fan. The sung part sounds good, though.

Crank Radio - Pretty good. Not my favorite thing, but there's nothing that strikes me as bad. It sounds like something I might hear on my local rock station. I like the guitars.

Ross Durand- It starts out a little bit "Say It Ain't So," but that quickly dissipates for the verse, which is very much not "Say It Ain't So." Then it crops back up a couple of times and I get distracted and start thinking about Weezer instead of this song. I'm in no position to say that you can't use a riff that kinda sounds like a different song, but my own deep, deep love for Weezer makes it hard for me to focus in this particular case. Anyway, the shaker is awesome. More shaker.

Flvxxm Florvm - I like this well enough. It sounds to me like the Beatles had a baby with the Electric Mayhem. Not my usual kind of thing, but I enjoy it.

Romer - Loved the intro. At first I was confused, but then I realized that I was really enjoying what I was hearing. Then when you started rapping I lost interest. This is almost kind of a Cake type talk-song, but it's not quite that. I feel like it should have been. Then it ends very suddenly, which is a lovely return to the spirit of the intro. All in all, the great parts don't outweigh the not-great parts, but keep in mind that they exist. I'd love to see you build on them.

J Sheezy - Your beat is really, really boring, friend. I'd say that's the most important thing for you to work on. Your rapping could also use some work, but it's less pressing an issue than your Casio loop backing track. Seriously, practice those things. All the freestyling ability in the world will not save you from a track that just sounds bad.

BLT+Paco+Denni - Well hey there. First things first-- Denni's vocals are absolutely gorgeous. Like... Wow. I'm not crazy about the lyrics, but it sounds great, like angry Blondie or something.

Noah McLaughlin - I can barely hear the backing vocals. I think you should have more of them because some harmonies would make this song awesome. I love the cowbell so much.

Paco Del Stinko - Lovely song. The lyrics are at times a bit on the nose, which makes it feel almost like it came out of a musical, but I love the eclectic arrangement and the admonishing harmonizers (new band name?) in the chorus and outro.

Tindersoot - Very soft-rocky, in a way that makes me feel all greasy inside. I cannot fault you technically, but I'm not feeling this track. I'll call the genre thing on this track, I guess. Not my cup of tea.

Larry - The guitar is too quiet, the piano is too loud. I am leaving Noah McLaughlin's cowbell for your vibraslap. We'll be together forever.

Cannibal Parrot - Your vocals and lyrics could use some work. The rest of the song sounds good, though. I'm liking the clavi.

Billy's Generic Trip - Good sound, boring lyrics. Too much repetition, I think. Vocals should be louder, too.

Lalabrookie - I'd like to hear you play with tempo. You have your sound pretty much down (acoustic guitar, constant harmonies), so I'm not going to ask you to change that, but I don't think I've heard you stray into anything faster than mid-tempo. I think doing that would have made this song stand out among your others, which can't hurt. As it is, good work, but I think it could have been so much more.

EggNogAdam - Too much over and under. I like the atmosphere created by the song, though, especially the vocal interplay and the effects.

Steve Durand - The boat-afloat rhyme seems cheap. More harmonies, please. I didn't think I would ever say this, but I kinda like the sax (if that's what that is.)

Me - This was a fun little experiment, I guess. I don't think I'll be doing too many more of these winkingly bad retro keyboard songs. There's only so much you can squeeze out of a consumer-grade keytar from 1987. I think I'll try for actual instruments in the future. But yes, it is about toilet paper. So that's fun.
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Re: You'll get Under Over the reviews

Post by Billy's Little Trip »

I want to be called Cannibal Parrot. :(
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Re: You'll get Under Over the reviews

Post by nyjm »

PiGPEN wrote:
--- pedobear would be proud ---
FYI, it's a teenage love (slick rick style).
Yes, but your voice is not that of a teenager. I finally understood the "teen" setting in the second verse, with the mention of bleachers, but by then the creepiness had already set in.
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Re: You'll get Under Over the reviews

Post by nyjm »

roymond wrote:noah mclaughlin - You need to open up the stereo field more. The cymbal is out there all alone, until the balancing cow bell.
Wouldn't that be narrowing the field, then? Maybe it's just some terminology confusion... when I think of "opening" the stereo field, I think of panning things wider. (Someday, I'm going to go 5-point surround-sound and be truly happy). To address a cymbal being all alone, I'd pull it closer to center and cut its gain a little.

Oh.... is it like "crowding" one side?

Anyway, thanks for the listen and I'm glad you liked it.
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Re: You'll get Under Over the reviews

Post by roymond »

nyjm wrote:
roymond wrote:noah mclaughlin - You need to open up the stereo field more. The cymbal is out there all alone, until the balancing cow bell.
Wouldn't that be narrowing the field, then? Maybe it's just some terminology confusion... when I think of "opening" the stereo field, I think of panning things wider. (Someday, I'm going to go 5-point surround-sound and be truly happy). To address a cymbal being all alone, I'd pull it closer to center and cut its gain a little.

Oh.... is it like "crowding" one side?
What I meant was too much was close to the center, ever the rest of the drums. Thus the cymbal sounded like it was alone. Poorly stated, I know. Perhaps more of an issue since I typically listen in headphones.
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Re: You'll get Under Over the reviews

Post by lalabrookie »

Billy's Little Trip wrote:
lalabrookie wrote:BLT, what a nice offer! And I do love you for who you are, so stop crying...but no nudies...sorry.
That's ok, I already picture you in my head. Good thing they don't make a connector from my brain to a printer. :wink:

....but I have to ask you, is that cat woman suit hot? It looks hot. :?
Dude...it is hot. And it itches like hell. Must be a polyester...oh wait...nvm :twisted:
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Re: You'll get Under Over the reviews

Post by J_Sheezy »

I lol'd at all the reviews, but I still must agree.. I was horrible... I just listened to my own puke vomit and I definitely need to work harder... and my static vocals... How to fix? I cant afford a $150 condenser mic and a pop filter... my setup is as follows... computer, fruity loops, stick microphone (MSRP $13), Skulcandy uprock headphones... I am a boulder basically, I do not have any hurt feelings... Im just going to try and try and try and undoubtedly put out shitty music for a while... until it might get accepted...
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Re: You'll get Under Over the reviews

Post by JonPorobil »

J_Sheezy wrote:I lol'd at all the reviews, but I still must agree.. I was horrible... I just listened to my own puke vomit and I definitely need to work harder... and my static vocals... How to fix? I cant afford a $150 condenser mic and a pop filter... my setup is as follows... computer, fruity loops, stick microphone (MSRP $13), Skulcandy uprock headphones... I am a boulder basically, I do not have any hurt feelings... Im just going to try and try and try and undoubtedly put out shitty music for a while... until it might get accepted...
Hm, interesting. I've heard decent music recorded on stick microphones before. If I recall, most of State Shirt's "New Planet" was recorded on a stick mic. http://www.songfight.org/music/new_plan ... planet.mp3 He used the lo-fi quality of the microphone as an effect, making it not the best example, but point is, he didn't let it ruin the song. You also mentioned using cheap headphones, but that's not really a problem unless they're bleeding sound into the microphone while you're recording. Or if you're trying to mix on them. You're using speakers for mixing, right?

Sheezy, your biggest problem is the humongous hiss (sometimes called a floor) in your vocal track. I would need some details about your setup to find out what's causing that, but most likely it's either your sound card or your room. How close is your mouth to the microphone? If there's more than a couple of inches of distance, you might see some small improvement by turns down the recording volume of your microphone and then singing/rapping either louder or closer to the mic.

Also, there are some points in the song in which it sounds like distortion is being introduced into your voice. This is when your voice projects at a volume too loud for the microphone to fully pick up. For an extreme example, try turning the recording volume all the way up and then screaming the ABCs into the mic while recording. You'll notice very clearly a "crackling" effect (this is what I think you were talking about when you said "static voice"). This is called distortion. Boiled down to its essence, this is the same thing that amps do to electric guitars to make them sound distorted. Some times a singer wants this vocal effect (see Ween's "I Can't Put My Finger On It" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj_Wi--TTVw ), but typically you want to avoid this. Recording engineers and knowledgeable musicians call it clipping when your voice or instrument is too loud for the mic.

A lot of amateur recording artists think this means they need to sing or rap quieter. Au contraire, don't hold back in your performance. Just turn down the recording volume of the microphone until your preferred vocal volume doesn't clip the mic. That way you get clearer vocals without having to sacrifice the passion that comes from not having to worry about how loudly you're singing or rapping.

To sum up, I've discussed two problems with your vocal recording method: the noise floor and the vocal clipping. Conveniently, they both have the same solution. There are alternate solutions to both problems, as well, but this is intro-level stuff. Let us know if turning down the volume doesn't reduce that floor.
Last edited by JonPorobil on Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: You'll get Under Over the reviews

Post by Billy's Little Trip »

J_Sheezy wrote:I cant afford a $150 condenser mic and a pop filter
Then you have no choice but to steal one. Correct me if I'm wrong, but god says that if you really really really really really need something, it's ok to borrow it without the intent on returning it. ~mathews 69:69




edit: WARNING: it is illegal to do illegal stuff. Plus it's not very nice to take things that don't belong to you, even though god says it's ok. A perp should always give their victim a bj or allow them to do you in the butt in return. So bring lube to your heist.
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Re: You'll get Under Over the reviews

Post by Ross »

Hey Roymond, I know I shouldn't talk, not havingnwritten reviews yet myself, but is there a reason you didn't review some of the songs?
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Re: You'll get Under Over the reviews

Post by Billy's Little Trip »

Ross wrote:Hey Roymond, I know I shouldn't talk, not havingnwritten reviews yet myself, but is there a reason you didn't review some of the songs?
My guess is that he wanted to argue with lalabrookie about why she was being such a bishop to that 15 year old idiot kid. Then he got all flustered and went to the shooting range to pop off a few hundred rounds to clear his mind. Then probably sat down and wrote a song about why we should always put our grass clipping in the green container and our plastic bottles in the blue container. :P

Am I close?
....and no Brookie, I don't think you're a bishop. :wink:
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Re: You'll get Under Over the reviews

Post by lalabrookie »

OK, I have to ask - besides the obvious ordained minister of God type thing - what is a bishop? Should I know this? :?
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Re: You'll get Under Over the reviews

Post by Billy's Little Trip »

It's a polite way of saying bish. Which is a nice way of saying the B word. You see, when the B word is diluted down at a ratio of 2 to 1, it becomes cheeky and fun. :P

Sing it with me like in My Fair Lady, kids.

at a ratio of 2 to 1, it becomes cheeky and fun

*again*

at a ratio of 2 to 1, it becomes cheeky and fun.

By god, I think you've got it! :mrgreen:
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Re: You'll get Under Over the reviews

Post by Larry B. »

Ok, I want to thank everyone for the time and effort to review the songs. JE, you missed the best part of my song, but that's ok, I guess. That guitar solo, was some of my best work yet. Now to what you all brought up. This is what I am hearing from your reviews.
1. The tonal differences between the grunge guitar and the clean piano was mentioned at least 3 times in the negative.
2. Someone noted a positive for the guitar tone, and Brooke mentioned that she liked piano, but not together (1of the 3 times)
3. Someone mentioned that they thought that the melody was interesting, another positive.
4. The clicky thing was a key-board drum program. I was playing a hi-hat.
5. Someone mentioned almost too much reverb. Was this vocal reverb, guitar reverb?
6. There were 2 mentions for the lyrics, one said too many cliches, the other said they just needed work, so negative on that one.
7. Someone mentioned that the piano counterpoint while a good mechanism was predictable and not very well done. So I'll take a positive for the idea, but a negative on the execution of said idea.
8. I got what I at least think was a positive on the use of the vibra-slap.
Thank you all again, I will keep working on it.
Now for my own reviews. First the votes.
BLT, Noah McLaughlin, Ross Durand, Tindersoot and I voted for myself.

Billy's Generic Trip Lyrics were good but the under/over bit was pretty over the top. It didn't work for me. It seemed like you just put this in in order to fit the SF criteria. The music was good too, almost a vote.
BLT Vote, Loved the vocal tone and the lead guitar work was pretty smokin. Great Job Guys!
Cannibal Parrot The Lyrics were kinda rough in spots (intonation problems) but the music was good. I loved the rhythm you had going, and the saxophone was great.
Crank Radio Lyrics good, music pretty good, too much fuzz on the guitar at one point really took away from what you were doing.
EggNogAdam Lyrics were ok, but I loved the line Over myself, underwhelmed alot. The music was ok, I sort of heard a background guitar part that I would have liked to hear better.
FlvxxxvmFlorvm The lyrics I rated ok, not loud enough, and the music was pretty good, disjointed and too loud, but there was some good guitar work in it also.
HeyItsRomer I rated the lyrics as not bad, too many layers to really be effective. I like layering, but a little goes a long way (I know cliche). Find the balance between the layers so that each can be distinguished and I think you will really have something. The music was interesting.
JSheezy Sorry dude, the lyrics sucked (under par is actually a good thing) and the music was boring. I wrote these reviews before I read any of the others, including my own reviews. But at least you have thick skin, I have since read your reaction. Keep at it, there were a couple of cool rhymes in the midst of all that other. BTW, I liked the "One Take, Hell Yeah" it shows courage.
Larry Hakala Dude, learn to play the piano! (Just wait till I bust out the recorder....) Lead guitar part was rockin. Vote any way, ya gotta vote for yourself.
LalaBrookie Lyrics were good, I loved the vocal tone quality. The music was ok, the guitar sounded alright, but there were definite timing issues on some of your changes. Do you have a click track? That could really help.
NoahMclaughlin Clever use of Greek Mythology to depict the Under Over criteria without mentioning the words in sequence. I think I heard one of them only one time. I rated the lyrics good although some of the words were hard to hear, and I like the music too I gave it a good also. Nice job, my vote for best song in the fight. Made me think of Annabeth Chase from the Percy Jackson and the Olympians series, by Rick Riordan.
PacoDelStinko Just wasn't feeling it man. It was clever, I liked the argument with yourself section, but it didn't have it for me otherwise. Personal bias. I gave the lyrics and the music both a pretty good.
PigPen Pretty good porn. I kept wanting to sing "Tomorrow Never Dies" I loved the vocal tone on your repeated U/O's. I gave both lyrics and music a good, almost a vote. Total raunch, but nicely done if that is possible.
Ross Durand I just enjoyed this song. Music and lyrics rated good. It didn't stream well under the stream all button, I had to stream it separately, but worth the effort. Vote.
SchlimminyCricket Love the moniker BTW. I gave this song a good lyrics and pretty good music. There were some good riffs but I have never been a big fan of the keytar. Personal preference almost vote. It was still a good song.
SteveDurand This song had the best use of the prhase Under Over "Going under over you" Well done. The lyrics were pretty good, vocal intonation, sorry. The music was good, the instruments were great! Couldn't help but think Aloha, Mahalo!
Tindersoot Vote Music and lyrics both good. Very clean production, loved it. Loved the line "One small concession and your flames are fed." Also the Bolshevik tactics reference. Great job!
Good fight! I'll be back soon.
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